Wednesday, June 10, 2009

Ever "Kiss Dating Goodbye" and Regret It?

Quote from the article: "Looking back on my decision not to date until I was “ready for marriage,” it is evident that this course has led me to become a bit of a cripple when it comes to approaching women. While putting the brakes on dating was good wisdom for some of my more sexed-up peers, I could really have used a good kick in the pants to throw me into gear."

Article Here

One would think the author of this short piece certainly regretted ever committing to Joshua Harris' book of the same name . . . that is until you read the last few sentences. Which, of course, then leads one to wonder, why the hell this guy even penned a piece about the problems of giving up dating altogether, when he suggests that dating was never his biggest problem to begin with?

That's Relevant Magazine for you. Great topics, great potential, weak punch.

To be honest, I found everything but the last few sentences of this article quite fascinating and probably because it was heading towards something that needs to be address in Christian circles. Namely, that the church (moreso the evangelical church) does a pretty rotten job at preparing Christians to properly handle their sexuality both before, apart from and within marriage. (For the record, I'm pretty much speaking about the evangelical church here because that is my background. While I am an Orthodox Christian I can't speak much to how sexuality is taught in this tradition as I'm too new to the program)

I can't tell you the numerous sexual ideologies i encountered growing up as an evangelical adolescent. "True Love Waits," "Second Virginity" "I Kissed Dating Goodbye," I even had someone tell me at a study session once that the most biblical marriages are "arranged marriages". As it turns out, "True Love Waits," where teens sign a pledge to save their virginity for their marriage partner, really only delayed sexual start-up times by about 18 months. I Kissed Dating Goodbye, as noted from the article above, does a great job at not preparing you to meet and interact with the opposite sex on a relational/marriage level, and arranged marriages....gimmie me a freakin' break!

Now I'm with Scot McKnight when he states that the Bible doesn't teach "no sex before marriage," so much as the Bible teaches that sex IS marriage. So why, for something that is espoused so highly, does the church approach so incompletely? I'll never forget the day I was closing up the ropes course out in Santa Cruz California at my favorite youth camp, when an old friend walked over to converse. He was married only 2 weeks prior and had just arrived back from his honeymoon. We started chatting about how things went over the past week when he told me, "Dude...don't expect everything to work on your first night." No one had ever told me anything like this previously. No one in the church...just no one. Apparently, no one told him either. And what was supposed to be this magnificent, romantic night, as many evangelicals holding out for their wedding night expect that it will be, really just wasn't.

Obviously, i don't need to go into extravagant detail here as I hope what i've written above makes stand alone sense. But seriously, why can't churches of all traditions who espouse and glorify (in a good sense) abstinence until marriage . . . why, WHY, can't they speak more realistically toward the subject? Why not speak to what married couples, singles and divorced individuals can and will encounter and to what singles wonder about what happens in the marriage bed; to what is permissible and what isn't?

Who was it who once said that growing up they were taught that 'sex is a very bad thing that you should save only for someone you love?' I guess we really shouldn't be surprised when those outside of the church see Christianity as just another irrelevant, prudish and repressed religion.

10 Comments:

At 7:51 PM, Blogger Steve said...

That certainly is a good article about the book "I Kissed Dating Goodbye." Unfortunately those that promote the "kissing dating goodbye" approach never want to share the problems their approach has caused though are quick to state all the defects of dating.

I have a blog where I critique Harris's book:

www.ikdg.wordpress.com
"I Kissed Dating Goodbye: Wisdom or Foolishness?"

Steve

 
At 11:10 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey James, just dropping in from PA. Hope you're well. I got to say, I think this is fundamentally the responsibility of the family, not the church. (With 'this' being: setting sexual expectations and giving guidance and wisdom on dating-type relationships.) Although, to mildly contradict myself, mentors in the church, those discipling individuals can also be really helpful here. It's intimate conversation that is best taught one-on-one. (P Doerfler)

 
At 5:01 PM, Blogger Marc said...

Welcome back to the blogosphere. Do you have another venue that I'm missing?

 
At 5:13 PM, Blogger Marc said...

Look, no one was a louder voice against the IKDG movement than me but this article makes me wonder if the writer ever even read the book. It wasn't about avoiding women. It wasn't about denying yourself the company of the opposite sex. It wasn't about refusing to speak to others. It was about making appropriate decisions in regards to relationships. It was about not dating one on one, but in groups. It was about courtship and keeping Christ at the center of your relationship. Kissing Dating Goodbye was designed to be a paradigm shift. If he really took it to heart he should still be Kissing Dating Goodbye and looking for a courtship. It was a game of semantics that was so confusing he had to write another book to explain it (Boy Meets Girl).

For him to blame his current situation on a book that he either didn't read or misunderstood appears to fall into the victimization place. "It's not my fault... I read this book..."

 
At 6:00 PM, Blogger Steve said...

Marc

The book may very well have not been about what you say. Unfortunately how the book has been implemented and concepts taken have caused a number of problems.

Unfortunately Josh Harris has taken little if any responsibility for correcting this. He pretty much "washes his hands" of the bad affects his book has produced. IMO this analogous to a company that has a machine where people keep cutting their hands on the machine and blaming it on unsafe employees vs. asking if their machine might be unsafe.

Steve
www.ikdg.wordpress.com

 
At 10:16 PM, Blogger james said...

Marc,

Just using facebook a whole lot more and am too busy to draft decent posts.

Steve,

Thanks for your thoughts.

 
At 1:08 AM, Blogger Marc said...

This post has been removed by the author.

 
At 1:09 AM, Blogger Marc said...

Steve,
I want to start this reply by saying I do NOT agree with Harris.

But I don't agree with your analogy either. A more appropriate one might be to have written instructions on how to perform a card trick, failing at said trick, and blaming the instructions.

Are the instructions faulty? That's tough to determine because some have had success with the trick while others have not.

Does fault fall to Harris? Absolutely. How much? Not nearly as much as those who misaplied or misunderstood his suggestions.

Victim mentality is really hard for me to swallow. That's all I'm sayin'.

I stopped by your SGM sites. Crazy! I've always had a weird feeling about that denomination but was never quite able to put my finger on why... Thanks for the honesty and expose on that group of people!

 
At 9:24 PM, Blogger Steve said...

Marc

Hopefully you saw the two blog on Sovereign Grace Ministries:

www.sgmsurvivors.com

www.sgmrefuge.com

They certainly share a sad side of Sovereign Grace. Hopefully the group will change but so far haven't seem to be that concerned with what is starting to come out about this group.

I hope I didn't come across as putting all of the blame for the misuse of "kissing dating goodbye" on Josh Harris.

I agree with you that there has to be personal responsibility. I am shocked that so many people followed the herd or "got on the bandwagon" and so blindly accepted "kissing dating goodbye" without any thought. Why they assumed that something that worked for a teenager in his situation should apply to all singles including older singles baffles me.

Harris did write his book as more of a testimonial of what worked for him but on the other hand sold study guides where people are to study and discuss his approach. This would lead one to thinking of it as more than a testimonial.

My biggest issue with Harris is that both in his book and his blogs have given a very unbalanced report on "kissing dating goodbye." It has caused a number of problems that Harris hasn't shared anywhere. He even acknowledged a number of problems with how singles relate at the church where he is Sr. Pastor but hasn't shared these problems on his blog. I discuss this in my blog entry:

http://ikdg.wordpress.com/2008/04/30/what-problems-joshua-harris-acknowledged-about-how-singles-relate-at-his-church-but-doesn%E2%80%99t-share-on-his-website/

For some reason Harris isn't willing to admit the problems of his approach. If Harris was more willing to do this maybe the approach could be better fine tuned to work better. From what I can see, a lot of people just abandoned the whole approach.

Thus I feel both Harris and those who apply what he teaches share the blame.

 
At 9:51 AM, Blogger JJ Kimmel said...

Hi James,

I can't remember how I stumbled on your blog, but I'm glad I did! I liked your post and I read the book years ago and hated it - mainly because I never was able to live up to that standard...I liked dating and kissing too much to say goodbye to either of them. ;)

My husband and I (and our 3 small children) recently moved out here from Colorado and are looking for a church. We are living in Hampton, NH and hoping to find something fairly close. I guess you could say we lean toward emergent at this point in our lives, it seems to feel the safest for us. Do you know of any churches in our area?

You can email me at jjkimmel@gmail.com

Thanks so much and I look forward to reading more of your blog!

- Jamie

 

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